July 20-26
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Time for another Old Testament story.
Jehoshaphat is a king of Judah. He is a righteous king who worked on pushing the hearts of his people towards the Lord. He tears down idols. He seeks out the will of the Lord. He’s a good man, though imperfect at times.
At one point in time, Jehoshaphat finds himself in Israel with his ally, the wicked King Ahab. Ahab wants to go fight Syria to recapture a city that was taken from Israel. Jehoshaphat agrees but wants to consult a prophet first. After consulting 400 false prophets who declare that they will be victorious, Jehoshaphat insists on consulting a true prophet.
The true prophet, Micaiah, comes and prophesies that they will lose and Ahab will die. Micaiah is actually quite awesome, but he is a story for another day.
Despite Micaiah’s prophecies, Ahab and Jehoshaphat try to fight Syria. It obviously doesn’t go very well. Ahab tells Jehoshaphat to wear royal robes, and Ahab dresses like a common soldier. Syria immediately starts trying to kill Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat calls out to the Lord and is saved. Ahab takes a random arrow and dies.
Jehoshaphat returns home and is greeted by a prophet from his own kingdom.
2 Chronicles 19:2-3
2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord.
3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.
After this experience, Jehoshaphat continues to make reforms to point his people towards the Lord. Jehoshaphat was not a perfect king, but he was a good king. In the Old Testament, we read a lot about the Lord punishing disobedience quickly and strongly. There is a reason for that; the Lord is warning us about the spiritual consequences of disobedience. And yet, the Lord doesn’t do this with Jehoshaphat despite his multiple recorded failings.
We see Jehoshaphat’s weakness a few more times over his reign.
Later on, Jehoshaphat makes another alliance with Ahab’s son, the new king of Israel. They built a bunch of ships together, and the prophet, Eliezer, prophesies that the ships will get destroyed. They get destroyed.
One of the ways that these two nations were allied was through a marriage. Jehoshaphat’s son, Jehoram, marries Ahab’s daughter. It comes back to haunt Jehoshaphat later when Jehoram starts worshipping idols and Ahab’s daughter tries to wipe out the Davidic line.
I love the nuance here.
Jehoshaphat made mistakes, but God spares him. He has weaknesses; he keeps trying to connect himself further with the northern kingdom that is wicked and idolatrous. There are two “despites” here that teach something really important.
Despite the fact that Jehoshaphat loves God, his disobedience and lack of trust come back to bite him. He loves God, but he has to experience consequences because of his flaws.
Despite the fact that Jehoshaphat has flaws, God continues to save him. He is directly saved in the battle that he fought with King Ahab, but he is preserved upon the throne until he “rested with his ancestors.” This is a biblical phrase that suggests he died peacefully.
I see it in my own life all the time. Despite the fact that I love God, I have flaws and they come with consequences. They drive me to be unhappy. When I get frustrated with my kids or get prideful or uncharitable, I find innate consequences that come back to bite me.
And yet, despite the fact that I have flaws, God continues to save me. We just keep on trying to move forward.
As I pondered this pattern, I thought of some of the other patterns I find in the Old Testament, specifically the pattern where God punishes those who trust mankind over Him. We see examples of kings that trusted Egypt but found themselves completely fallen to Babylon. Why didn’t Jehoshaphat find himself in this category? As I pondered Jehoshaphat’s exception, I was reminded that Hezekiah is another example of this. Hezekiah tried paying tribute to Babylon to get them to go away, and he even stripped the gold and silver out of the temple in order to pay that tribute.
So why were Hezekiah and Jehoshaphat spared when they also didn’t put their trust fully in God?
There is one more verse I want to share. It’s about Jehoshaphat, but Hezekiah did a similar thing.
2 Chronicles 18:31 And it came to pass, when the captains of the chariots saw Jehoshaphat, that they said, It is the king of Israel. Therefore they compassed about him to fight: but Jehoshaphat cried out, and the Lord helped him; and God moved them to depart from him.
What was the difference? Jehoshaphat called out to God. Hezekiah did similarly. After stripping the temple and failing, Hezekiah went to the temple and pleaded with the Lord.
When do we really lose the battle? When we turn on the Lord and don’t turn back to Him again after.
I think that’s really one of the keys to life here. We all fail. It’s inevitable. What keeps us in the pattern of Jehoshaphat and Hezekiah? We turn to the Lord again even after we failed Him. We plead to Him and ask for forgiveness even in the midst of the potentially devastating consequences that we got ourselves into.
We just keep turning back, no matter how many times we’ve failed.
I testify that we can turn to God, no matter how many times we’ve failed. I testify that this pattern is the one that really grants us success: turning to the Lord over and over and over and over. Even when we’ve failed Him, we turn right back. We trust that He will still love us, and we ask Him to help us get out of it and get better.
Autumn Dickson 
In the Old Testament, we read a lot about the Lord punishing disobedience quickly and strongly……. Please elaborate on this with some actual examples! I have a much different perspective. I am pretty confident that you can’t, so it’s a rhetorical request. Punishing disobedience quickly and strongly is my idea of how Lucifer would have executed his plan to bring everyone back, that one soul would not be lost. In my mind, the only way to accomplish this would be instant reward and punishments — the ones the Devil valued. Of course, it was actually a plan of misery.
As I pondered this pattern, I thought of some of the other patterns I find in the Old Testament. You answered many of the questions you asked at the beginning of this post toward the end.
Your question: So why were Hezekiah and Jehoshaphat spared when they also didn’t put their trust fully in God? Because we worship a God who loves being merciful. As awful and wicked as Ahab was, he ruled Judah for 22 years, which seems quite slow as far as punishment from the Lord goes.
I read this post late last night and then read some in my Infinite Atonement book & low and behold, a bit of divine correlation happened again. On p194 is said — The Lord loves and longs to forgive each of his children. “If we will but repent, He will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:7). Peter explained that the Lord was “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come onto repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). Even Ahab, the reprobate king of Israel, had a transitory moment of repentance that was rewarded by the Lord: “Because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring evil in his days” (1 Kings 21:29). It is as though the Lord wants to bless every attempt, however small and feeble it may be, to put our life in his hands.
Yes, we can turn to God, no matter how many times we’ve failed. I loved a comment I read on FB yesterday. A divorced, active woman is struggling with her ex-husband who is opposed to having their son baptized into the Church. The commenter wrote “It’s all ok in the end. And if it’s not ok, it’s not the end”. I am very thankful, that by keeping my covenants, it all going to be ok……. in the end!!
While I have a different opinion, I truly admire all these magnificent, thought-provoking messages. I really look forward to reading your thoughts every week. Keep blessing me by keeping the office open. 🙂
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That’s so interesting because I may stick to my guns for this one haha. There are a few examples but my first thought was of Uzziah and the Ark. He reached out to touch the Ark and died immediately. There are other stories of the ground swallowing up Korah or Nadab and Abihu being burned. And though I see the discipline being swift, I see it as simultaneously merciful. I believe it’s done in great love for His children. I believe that God knew how vulnerable this group of people was, and He acted accordingly in order to preserve them.
As for Lucifer, I’m not sure how he would have conducted his plan, but I disagree on this one too. Strict discipline (even immense, scary punishment) doesn’t guarantee perfection. We see it all the time with abusive households. People would still make mistakes and he wouldn’t be able to bring them back unclean. Maybe this was his plan, and it was just going to be ineffective? I pictured something closer to no free will whatsoever. Not sure the logistics of that, but it’s simply how I pictured it. Obviously, I could be totally off.
I wonder if we actually feel relatively similar about some of these things, but with nuance and different emphasis. I will note: there are also plenty of examples where He does not act swiftly.
I believe the reason Hezekiah and Jehoshaphat were forgiven and upheld was because of their soft hearts. God knew they were malleable and would continually turn back to Him. He knew He could work with those men, and so He kept them where they were.
Luckily, I think we both agree on the Lord’s justice and mercy being absolutely perfect. I think we can agree that how He chooses to govern and when He chooses to interfere is perfect, and I’m excited to have all the answers someday (because I definitely don’t have everything right now!).
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It is very good to hear you are sticking to your guns. We don’t disagree very often, so it is good to know it is because we truly agree and not reluctantly just to keep the peace.
I am going to stick to mine as well. There are several eternal principals that I always measure my “theories” against. First, God is no respecter or persons. Second, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Based on these, I don’t think your examples qualify, because there are countless examples where the Lord definitely does not act swiftly.
When 2 gospel ideas seem to be in conflict, a reasonable answer that makes both of them true is required. Take grace and works — some religious traditions believe in solo gratia, salvation by grace alone, and falsely claim we believe in works salvation. Grace is a loving Heavenly Father’s gift to us and showing our faith by our works is our gift back to Him. (James 2:17). Nephi provides that correct balance. We are saved by grace, AFTER all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23)
Our current discussion seems to be similar. Quick, strong (yet inconsistent) punishment vs mercy and longsuffering.
I disagree with each of your examples. Yes, the Lord said don’t touch “any holy thing, lest they die” (Numbers 4:15). Uzzah touched the Ark and he died. If others touched the Arc and didn’t die, then the Lord is a respecter of persons. When Babylon captured Jerusalem, the Ark and many other things were taken out of the Temple (2 Kings 24:13). Same for the Philistines (1 Samuel 5:1). The story of Uzzah also included David transporting the Ark on a cart instead of having Levite priests carrying it (1 Chronicles 13:7) as commanded by the Lord (Exodus 25:14). In all these examples, only Uzzah died and since the Lord is not a respecter of persons, then there must be an explanation that makes everything fit.
For me that explanation is “ripe for destruction”. This also explains what happened to Korah, Nadab and Abihu. If it is one wrong move and you are dead, we would be reading about many, many others, then and now, getting swallowed up in the earth and consumed by fire from Heaven. Another example is Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5. If an otherwise righteous, covenant keeping couple decided to shave a portion of their tithing and lied about it one time and die for doing it, then cemeteries would be overflowing. Since they are not, Ananias and Sapphira must have been repeat offenders and “ripe for destruction”.
Lucifer’s plan was to destroy our agency. Just tonight, I watched a BYU-Idaho address from a few years ago by Elder David A Bednar and his wife. Elder Bednar spoke extensively about the difference between acting and being acted upon. Without agency, we are not free to act for ourselves and choose good over evil. I still think it was a plan that didn’t include redemption and would have made us all miserable. (Alma 42:11). I feel either of us actually think his plan could have actually produced righteous Saints. I also acknowledge that it’s just my own imperfect theory.
Yes, everything about the Savior is perfect. Thanks for helping me think deeply again.
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I really love how you explained that, and I am actually very inclined to agree. That is definitely a much more accurate view of things. I was thinking of specific examples rather than overarching pictures. Thank you for helping me see more clearly!!
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Hold on….. there is more. Since you are my Come Follow Me pen pal and sounding board, I would appreciate your help in refining this conversation.
A few days ago, I read Mosiah 27, the story of Alma the younger and the 4 sons of Mosiah. Alma is a “very wicked and idolatrous man” (vs 8), “stealing away the hearts of the people; causing much dissention among the people; giving a chance for the enemy of God to exercise power over them” (vs 9). Uzzah did what he did to himself. Alma has chosen great wickedness and seems to fit the “ripe for destruction” mold far more the Uzzah, Korah, Nadab and Abihu, Ananias and Sapphira. He isn’t repenting. He seems to enjoy teaching false doctrine and serving the devil, yet an angel appears and gives him, and this wicked companions a 2nd chance.
This seems to be an exception for all 4 of these men. Is God a respecter of persons in this case? I doubt it, but I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject.
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This definitely just goes to further illustrate your point, but sometimes I think we are very shortsighted as humans. Death seems like a big deal to us, but it’s just a door for God. It’s just one other step in a series of steps of bringing us home. Alma seemed to be ripe for destruction, but he wasn’t because he repented. I’m not sure whether Uzzah would have repented if an angel came, but if we take a step back, we realize that God didn’t act that differently. Uzzah likely did see angels, quite immediately. He was just at a different plane of existence. God was still reaching to him.
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Thanks for your help and input. Good point about Uzzah not repenting if he had seen an angel. I guess one could have appeared between the thought to steady the Arc and when he actually did touch it, but I think ripe for destruction still applies.
I re-read Mosiah 27 and 3 verses jumped out….. 25-27
25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;
26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
27 I say unto you, unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off.
I am thinking there needs to be another category to my previous comments “like to be cast off-born again”. Perhaps this is between trying hard and ripe for destruction? This would explain why a similar thing happened to Saul on the road to Damascus. 5 pretty wicked men and rather than being smitten and killed, an angel gives a great opportunity to repent, be born again, and become instruments for good in the hands of the Savior.
It seems pretty rare, so I don’t want to test the Lord. I’ll stick with trying hard.
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I always thought the example of Saul was an interesting comparison to Alma the Younger. Saul was extremely zealous and willing to follow God, or in my mind, he was. He was going about doing awful things, but he was trying to follow God in his own way. In my mind, he just needed a course correction so he could put all that zeal into actually following God.
Maybe something else we need to look at is society at large rather than just individuals. The Lord also has to consider what it will do to His people if He allows wickedness to continue. Why did He send an angel to Saul but not others? Perhaps because the church was so fragile then that He believed it was a good time to intercede. Why did He intercede with Alma the Younger? Maybe the foundations of the church were at stake. I’m sure there are a myriad of reasons that contribute to any one of His decisions.
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Perhaps I didn’t ask the question the right way?
Do you think there should be a place between trying hard and ripe for destruction in Heavenly Fathers dealings with all of us, because he is no respecter of person’s right?
I think we both ended up agreeing on there being a time and place where those who are “ripe for destruction” are called home and they only have themselves to blame.
I would be very grateful for your feedback on “like to be cast off-born again”. God can still be no respecter of persons without sending an angel to call every wicked soul to repentance. At some point everyone who is “like to be cast off” due to their sins and wickedness will be given something equivalent to the wakeup call to what Alma and Saul received but tailored just for them. A wide-ranging yet unmistakable moment where an opportunity for repentance and being born again is provided so that there is no excuse for not heeding the warning. If that happens, then ripe for destruction is fast approaching!
Trying hard —- Like to be cast off-born again —- Ripe for Destruction
I could be way off. I respect your opinion. What do you think?
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To be 100% honest, I’m getting a bit lost in the weeds I think. I have often agreed with your wise opinion; I’m not sure why I’m having a more difficult time understanding or explaining myself this go around. I may have missed what you were trying to express. Or maybe I’m just really running on low today. I got a grand total of three hours of sleep last night because baby is sick. I usually refrain from opening my notifications or pulling up comments because I forget to go back to them. I thought I could handle it tonight, but I suppose not. My eyes are closing on me. I will try to remember to head back this way and reread previous comments!
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I don’t usually respond this quickly, but I didn’t want you to be stressing out over this, especially not at 2 am! You are a wife, mother and excellent Come Follow Me resource.
We have corresponded for years now, typically I read (or in the past, watch) your message, respond, get a response back and then it’s on to the next week. For whatever reason, this one is a total, multi response exception.
I was just using you as a sounding board for thoughts bouncing around in my head recently. It’s not like I am preparing a break-through in doctrine for the church or even a Sacrament meeting talk. Heavenly Father has a perfect plan. It may include likely to be cast off-born again and ripe for destruction or it might not. It really doesn’t make much difference.
Your thoughts are valued and always gratefully appreciated. Share your thoughts, if you would like. No pressure at all & it is totally fine if you choose not to reply on this topic again.
Keep up the excellent work. Best wishes always.
PS: The Infinite Atonement book I am reading by Tad Callister referred to this talk by Bruce C Hafen. I read it and loved it, so I am just passing it along for your own enjoyment. Beauty for Ashes: The Atonement of Jesus Christ Liahona April 1997.
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